NBA star Kevin Love has reached incredible success in the NBA. But his drive to move ahead also masked depression and anxiety, which he’s struggled with for much of his life. For a long time, he hid his battle with mental health because he was worried that his fans would see him as “weak.” But after a very public panic attack in 2017, Love started speaking out about his mental health.
Love talks with host Morra Aarons-Mele about role modeling openness about mental health, how he manages his social anxiety as a celebrity, and why basketball both aggravates and relieves his depression.
Further Reading:
- “To Anybody Going Through It” (The Player’s Tribune, 2020)
- “Kevin Love details his battles with mental illness” (ESPN, 2018)
- “Kevin Love on How to Find the Right Therapist, and What to Do If You Can’t Afford One” (GQ, 2019)
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MORRA AARONS-MELE: I’m Morra Aarons-Mele and this is The Anxious Achiever. We look at stories from business leaders, who’ve dealt with anxiety, depression, or other mental health challenges, how they fell down, how they pick themselves up and how they hope workplaces can change.
Today’s guest is an idol to my kids and to many kids and adults around the world. He’s an Olympic gold medalist. Five-time NBA All-Star. He’s one of the big three with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving who helped the Cleveland Cavaliers reach four straight NBA finals, including a 2016 championship. Not only that he will earn about $31 million this year. And yet Kevin Love is often depressed and anxious. It’s in his chemistry. Love has written eloquently about his experience. And he’s been in the press talking about this, but before he started talking about it, he feared he’d be seen as weak or that he wouldn’t be taken as seriously on the court. He was worried he would be shamed. Now of course, none of that has happened. Kevin Love is a role model to so many, and he’s helped spur discussion in the National Basketball Association and in pro sports in general. Recently, NBA Commissioner, Adam Silver, even admitted that many players in his league are anxious and that the league needs to take action. Our heroes have depression and clinical anxiety. Remember that. So I’m thrilled to have Kevin Love join us today to talk about mental health, success, and the journey in between.
So you’ve been, you’ve been public about your struggle with depression, and I’m curious, you know, was that a hard decision to make, to go public?
KEVIN LOVE: It was a very hard decision because I feel like, you know, it was even more heightened and even more under a microscope because as athletes and as an athlete, we’re looked at as superheroes, I know that from growing up and having these superstars in my eyes like Charles Barkley or a Shaquille O’Neal, or even before that with Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, I’m looking like… these guys are indestructible. Nothing can hurt them. Growing up as a young man, I thought to expose that it was just going to put me in a, a light where people are going to look at me as weak, uh, not only my teammates or my counterparts, but, you know, as I got older, it was, uh, you know, general managers and ownership and things that were going to really affect my livelihood, let alone the general public. So for me, it was something that before I press send on my first article with the Players Tribune, I was really, I guess, scared would be the right word and uneasy and had a lot of anxiety, but, you know, it was, it just came a point in time and the perfect storm for me in that year that I just didn’t want to live in the shadows anymore.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Why, like, what was the moment that made you think, “Forget it. I just have to talk.”
KEVIN LOVE: Yeah. I mean, I have, you know, a lot of pillars in my life, I have, you know, whether it be my, you know, my love life or my family life or professional life with basketball, even just, you know, at home, like, you know, where your mind can play tricks on you. And if you have a chemical imbalance or you’ve had so much anxiety or even social anxiety, or you’re having a really bad bout of depression that can last several months. I, you know, I had that crutch of basketball really taken away from me and my safe place was taken away from me because in November of 2017, I had a very public panic attack where I’d left the court. Nobody really knew what was going on. You know, I ended up on the ground, and our head athletic trainers office asked me for… went to the hospital after the fact and some of my teammates and people that were around the team in that orbit had seen me have this episode.
So I was really, really nervous. And really it was the element of shame that crept in as well, and then feeling like I needed to hide. Um, and so when that safe base got taken away, that was very, very tough for me. It sent me even into a deeper spiral and while basketball at the time wasn’t going great. I still… it’s funny. I ended up making the All-Star team, so I was still able to achieve, and I was still able to get to a certain point. I just wrote an article in September where I said I was trying to achieve my way out of depression. And it didn’t matter really what was happening to me on the basketball court in that year. It just, to me, just all seemed inconsequential. That to me was even more scary because this is what I grew up loving. And as my first love, and it’s something that I just enjoy doing so much.
So that all led up to that point in March where I wanted to share my story, but there are a number of other things that it got a lot worse before it got better, but things that led to saying like, okay, not only for myself, but just that one kid or that one person that I could affect, it could be really a, you know, a special thing. And also on the other side of it in a selfish way, I wanted it to be therapy for myself as well. I was done, you know, just being tucked away and compartmentalizing and just not speaking about my problems.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Hmm. It’s funny. You use such strong words like weak and shame, you know, and it’s, um… you know, when I told my kids that I was interviewing you, they were star struck. Like they would never think of you as weak. Like you, you are a hero to them. And it’s so interesting to hear someone like you use those words.
KEVIN LOVE: Yeah, no, I continue to see it more and more, and not just in the athletes space, people that are in the public eye. And that’s how I just know it makes me… relieved isn’t the right word, but it makes me feel like I’m really doing meaningful work. And it makes me, gives me a sense of happiness and belonging, knowing that while it’s sad that other people are struggling at this capacity in a lot of ways worse, but you know, these, these athletes and, and I mentioned some of my counterparts they’ve come to me, not in a public setting, but just individually asking for help or somebody within arm’s distance saying, “Hey, a family member or a best friend is really struggling.” Like, you know, “What did you do? What resources did you have? What resources do we have in the NBA? What resources do you think we need in NFL, MLB?” and so on and so forth.
So to that extent it makes, you know, what I’m doing. And I know we’ll get into the fund at some point, but it just makes what we’re doing and what we’re speaking about. And initially, I think the biggest thing is just the stigma, continuing to speak about it. And at the end of the day, you’re so much less likely to detect something or something’s going on if you don’t talk about it. So that’s what, and especially with Youth UpRISE too, like Parkland, Florida was a major part of my story because it was All Star Weekend of 2018. And again, you know, I had basketball taken away from me in that new year, which is the year I had the panic attack, but I had broken my left hand. So I didn’t have that emotional outlet. So Parkland, Florida happened. I conceptualize what was happening with the shooter and the parents involved and the victims, like that to me was psychological warfare in itself.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Why, like, what, what triggered, what about that moment triggered it in you?
KEVIN LOVE: See, it’s just like, you know, everything that’s going on now too, it’s just the absurdity of our modern condition.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: It doesn’t feel psychologically healthy in any way.
KEVIN LOVE: Oh, it can’t be the long term, especially like if you consider, you know, you have COVID, you have social injustice, you have the wildfires that, you know, ravaged the West coast, where, where I grew up, whether it be… I was born in California, grew up in Portland, Oregon. And then my girlfriend is from Vancouver, BC where the air quality was the worst in the world, uh, during that point and, you know, Washington where I spent so much of the time driving up I5 and watching Mariners games and Sonics game, you know, and then you look at the election and, and you have, you turn on the TV and no matter where you look or you get these updates on your phone, or, you know, you have to mute notifications because these, these long-term effects. I don’t even think we understand the long-term effects of these 24/7, 365 outlets.
That just, yeah, just pumping, just negativity into you at all times. I got to imagine the long-term effects of that, especially on kids who are so susceptible to change and, you know, with bipolar, with major depressive disorder or schizophrenia, and like all these mental health disorders, your brain and the chemistry in your brain, and those markers are changing way before your behavior. So for kids to see that it’s just gotta be, and then taken away from their schools and their social life, the long-term effects have to be just really, really, you know, extraordinary in a, in a, in a, in a bad context.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Let’s talk about dread because I think that dread is something that people who have depression are so familiar with, but it’s not something that’s talked about. And it is, it is a feeling that spikes cortisol and also makes day-to-day life hard. And you wrote something, when I read this, I thought, “Oh my gosh, I love this man. I have to talk to this man,” because you wrote, “Even in the best of times, my default setting was often dread. That’s just the way I’ve been wired. Since I was a kid, it’s like, there’s a constant, low level threat that you can feel in the pit of your stomach.” I mean, oh gosh, I can relate to that. But the question is, of course, how did you achieve all that you have if you have the constant feeling of dread?
KEVIN LOVE: Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s a great question. And I read a book called Lincoln’s Melancholy last year that had a profound effect on me and where, you know, his, his depression and his melancholy and everything that he went through actually drove him to do great things. And it just showed me that in a lot of ways, it can be a gift and a curse. And in a lot of ways people have changed the way that they look at mental illness and being well, because in that time and, you know, thirties, 1830s, forties, fifties, sixties, he, you know, it was looked at as sometimes something that you could achieve great things. And that sense of dread has never left me. I still feel it when I wake up in the morning every day. And I, you know, whether I do my meditation or I work out, or I just do everything I can to change my relationship with it or make it seem just farther away. But I talked about being exhausted too, like that “just endure” mentality and like always running on empty and always being tired. And it’s just so incredibly exhausting, but the only way I saw through it was to try and achieve myself out of it.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Do you talk to your dread and your anxiety and your depression? Do you tell them to go away, or like… what do you say to them?
KEVIN LOVE: Yeah. And yeah, so it’s probably not, you know, something that I could say on this podcast, but I’ve had that conversation with it. Yeah. It’s something that is you know it’s we can say “off air,” but yeah, of course it’s, it’s, and even just passing the mirror test, seeing myself and looking at myself in the mirror and just saying, “You’re not good enough.” I’ve thought a lot about regret. And I’ve thought a lot about impostor theory, not feeling worthy, everything that I achieved, not feeling worthy. So I had to, you know, I had to achieve the next thing and I had, you know, it, it was common to feel like I always needed to prove myself. I just had no solid footing. And I don’t…
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Were you like that as a kid? Were you raised that way?
KEVIN LOVE: Oh my God. I was… no. And it, it was just something that was, I think, inherent in me. I just always had a need to prove myself. That’s still something that I grapple with, still something that I fight and go to therapy for. And, you know, those conversations are still really hard to have. And it’s something that I have to work on every day. And that feeling in the pit of my stomach, that, that low-level threat that I talked about is still constantly there, but I’ve learned to live with it and change my relationship with it, but it’s… listen. It’s just something that I’ve accepted that it’s never going to go away and, you know, I’m okay with that. I’m okay with putting in the work to better myself and therefore pay it forward.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Well let’s, let’s talk about performance, right? Cause, cause I was thinking about this when I was thinking about you as an athlete and that you have coaches, like a lot of us sort of have managers or CEOs, right? But that ultimately you also are responsible for your individual performance and you’re on a team. You got a lot of interpersonal dynamics going on. So like in a way, do you think that for you being in touch with what makes you tick makes it almost better and easier for your coaches and your teammates to work with you and understand you? Like, is there a secret that people who understand their mental health can, like, unlock in terms of being a better teammate? A better…
KEVIN LOVE: Yeah. A hundred percent because, and I, I’ve started to talk about this, you know, when, when people ask me like what, what is different? What do you feel now… what’s the thing that’s changed the most? And I said, I think it’s more than anything just how comfortable I feel in my own skin. Right? Like being unapologetically myself and walking into a room and just being me at all times like that is so freeing. And I think it not only affects the mind, but it affects the body as well. It just calms, you know, pretty much every part of you down while you still have that, that threat in the pit of your stomach, you just, you’re just yourself and you learn to love yourself more. And they, yeah, there were so many times I couldn’t separate myself from performance. Like you set this highest goal and then you reach this goal and then you get used to this new version of normal and then that wears off and you have the same brain. And then that’s when you get depressed or get anxiety or these negative spirals happen. But I’ve, I’ve worked on that quite significantly.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: And, and also I imagine like if your team understands that if your coach understands that in a way it can make things easier.
KEVIN LOVE: For sure. And I think I’ve read a Bob Iger’s book in the middle of… actually right at the beginning of COVID. And he just talked about not only being at Disney, but his whole entire upbringing through his professional life. He talked about vulnerability and that hit a major chord with me because I feel like I’ve been able to play my cards and I’m able to admit when I’ve messed up and where I can get better. And I always say like, only by admitting who we are, do we get what we want? And I fully fully believe that. And I think it’s made me a better person, overall teammate, you know, easier to coach, a better boyfriend, a better dog dad, you know, whatever it is, I’ve become overall, no matter what… I mean that’s, that’s… I said something the other day, like, dogs show you, like, so much what love looks like. So that again, like that’s a whole other thing. Like, you know, as far as being a therapy dog, my dog has been incredible.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Um, one of the things that you talked about about feeling in your panic attack was that you were winded. It was like, all of a sudden you weren’t as in as good a shape as you really were, you know, like it was a true detriment. I want you to talk a little bit about the relationship between sports endorphins and managing your mental health. You said that athletics helped you get out of your pain tank. How does it work for you?
KEVIN LOVE: Well I think early on there was no emotional balance for me. I was wrapped up in basketball and that was it. And I am into so many different things. I like to think of myself as a Renaissance man. No, but I have so many different hobbies and things that I’m into, that growing up in the world has opened up for me since I’ve changed my relationship with basketball, being just the only thing that I am, the world has opened up for me in a major way and opened up different sources of happiness. But at the time I couldn’t wrap my mind around anything other than basketball as a way to fix myself, like early on it, no time for schoolwork, you know, for my little sister, who’s five years younger than me. Like if it didn’t align with basketball and just straight achievement, then, you know, and making it to the NBA, it just wasn’t, I’m not gonna say important to me, but it wasn’t something that I was, you know, it wasn’t linear enough for me.
I couldn’t take any side steps. And I had, I was actually, you know, I was a B student. I was, you know, I was going to go to a UCLA or North Carolina, which ended up being my two top schools. I picked UCLA. And that was going to be, you know, my quickest route to make it to my dream. But my anxiety really in a lot of ways came from the pressure that I put on myself. And at times it felt almost unbearable, but I knew that there was a bigger goal at hand, and sometimes it worked against me, but sometimes it was the gift that kept me going. It was that constant buzzing that just kept me going for better, for worse.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: But I’m curious, like if you have a kid who’s like you were cause your dad was a basketball player, but your kid is like, “This is my dream.” You did a great video I watched, um, with JJ Redick and JJ Redick said that, he said the thing he loves doing most, which is basketball, also brings him the most anxiety. And it sounds like that’s true for you. I think that’s true for a lot of gifted overachievers. Like if your kid is that person where the thing that they love the most is the thing that brings them the most anxiety. How do you handle that? I think about that a lot. I think you have to…
KEVIN LOVE: That emotional outlet that is outside the realm of your sport or your profession or your love, and no matter what that is, performing on stage or you, you know, music or no matter what it is, I feel like celebrating, you know, yourself, maybe share, you’re giving yourself a pat on the back, you know, allowing people to give credit where credit’s due, but also understanding the lessons in failure as well. Like I’ve always been extremely competitive and there’s lessons in everything. But, you know, I do think that, as a kid… and I look back now, the depression aspect of it stole the moments of being happy and proud, you know, in the moments when I should be happiest and proudest.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Like when? Can you, can you share an example?
KEVIN LOVE: Oh, I mean, there was, you know, so many times, like I hear I’m going to give myself credit, you know, as an individual, I was national player, a national athlete of the year, my senior year in high school, but I didn’t allow myself. I said, it wasn’t good enough because we didn’t win a state championship that year. We won the previous year and we had lost. But after the fact, you know, I achieved all these individual accolades, but you know, that, you know, it was always that one thing missing, there was always that dangling carrot, which was just outside of what I considered success. I regret just in, you know, some of it was out of my hands, but regret losing that game so much. And I wish I would have done this. And it’s so easy to connect the dots, looking back. And I think that’s the only way you could do it. But sometimes those moments and diving into those can be, can be scary. And I think misleading, like, that’s, it’s pretty misleading because as I mentioned, there’s a lot of stuff to be learned in, in failure and in losses. But I didn’t, I don’t think I had the presence of mind at the time to truly understand that.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: What’s the relationship between in your mind, masculinity, or at least our version of masculinity right now, and the fear of failure?
KEVIN LOVE: Well, thankfully that’s, that’s changing. I do believe that I think, you know, the willingness to try new paths or new ways to even speak about mental health, but just acknowledge that in young people, the numbers continue to rise, whether that be youth suicide, suicide, we’re starting to diagnose a lot of these things earlier, like when it comes to major depressive and acute anxiety. And we’re, we are diagnosing 50% by the age of 14 and 75% by the age of 24. So we’re starting thankfully to catch these things earlier, therefore able to treat it.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: True. But do you think that driven young boys and young men have a different relationship with, like, do you think that the 18-year-old Kevin Love who’s losing his… high school? Um, his state championship is feeling any less pressure or is feeling any less like a failure than you did? Like, I think that’s the problem.
KEVIN LOVE: So now if you look at it from that way, you know, it totally is. And you know, here I am sitting with my headphones, plugged into my computer and whether it’s that, or my phone and the social media platform, or you make one mistake, it can feel like the end of the world. There’s major consequences to that. And it’s gotta be tough for that. Yeah. That idea of masculinity and failure and not allowing yourself to have an emotional outlet. I certainly didn’t when I was young and that’s probably why I have so many gray hairs at the age of 32, but the, uh, and I’ll say this too, like when I was growing up, you know, a lot of, a lot of my pain was in some ways pushed onto other people. I wasn’t transferring this awful feeling down to them. Like almost that feeling of better them than me, or we’re both going to struggle in this together.
So like, I wasn’t a bully. I was never bullied by any means. I was actually very sweet and, and had good character, but no, I was in a group setting. I wanted to be accepted so bad. I think that idea of acceptance can teeter and there’s good and bad in both, but it can be a very ugly thing when you’re on the other side of it. And I used to, not act out, but in a way, like, try and be funny and be the, be the class clown at somebody else’s expense. And then not knowing that it was going to hurt both of us, but then you would catch me in, you know, a very personal one-on-one or very small group setting. And you realized, and I realized like, man, like why, why do I feel the need to be accepted by things that I’m making up in my head? Like, just be, just be, you just be a, you know, a good person with good values and know that you’re, you know, you’re not only hurting this person, but you’re, you’re hurting yourself as well. I think if we were able to tackle these things and able to have these conversations as a young man, I think we’d be better off.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: I feel like men’s sports gives men an outlet, even, even grown-up men who aren’t professional, you know, it gives you an outlet to be emotional. And too, I always joke that men are allowed to love their team and their dog, you know, they’re allowed to cry about their dog and their sports team, but nothing else.
KEVIN LOVE: Nothing else.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Did you ever feel like, um, once you sort of came out about your depression in the, in the league that you would get any, um, that you would be not in the cool kids group anymore or that you’d get…?
KEVIN LOVE: Absolutely. Absolutely. But I, you know, it comes a point in time where, you know, and I have, I have a very long leash, but once it comes to like a tipping point or a breaking point for me, um, I can, you know, have anger and rage. And that’s how, you know, I always had someplace to go when I was going to have an anxiety attack and that escape allowed it to manifest in different ways. It’s not healthy.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: I mean, you’d go to the court if you were going to have an anxiety attack.
KEVIN LOVE: Well, not only that, or I’d have, you know, I’d go to my room and I, you know, scream into a pillow or punch a pillow or, you know, something to that extent. Okay.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: I think a lot of feedback is subtle. Do you know what I mean? It’s like a lot of racism is subtle. A lot of sexism is subtle. Mental health judgments are subtle, especially in a professional context. Right? And, and, and, and I think in this day and age, very few people would be, you know, like outright, you know, “He’s crazy, I’m not talking to him,” but that there might’ve been, like, more subtle cues or digs, like… I’ve experienced that. And I’m just curious if, if you experienced that, if it’s almost a feeling that people are almost quietly seeing you differently.
KEVIN LOVE: Yeah, no, I think so. But then I also feel like we talked about that performance piece of it all and how, you know, also the anxiety or whatever it may be driving you. I think a lot… I think the number in professional sports, but I think the number in the NBA is very, very high for people that are experiencing mental health issue, even, you know, especially if you, if you have a long career, like in, at the end of the day, everybody’s going to grieve and experience loss as well. So that is inevitable. It’s, you know… father time is undefeated. There’s something that’s going to happen in your life. That is going to be absolutely tragic at the hand of loss. So I think of course there’s people that don’t quite understand it. Like they don’t understand as you mentioned, you know, racism or, or, or sexism. And I think that ignorance can read for a lot of unhealthy thoughts or unhealthy, very subtle cues that people… and you see that today with a lot that’s going on. I think it’s the same thing with mental health.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Or they do understand it. I think they do understand it and they don’t want to deal with it in themselves. And so it’s easier to sledge other people. Yeah.
KEVIN LOVE: Right. No, exactly. And then it’s really like, okay, you got to point that finger back at you. Or like, you know, I always said like the mirror test, that’s why I started going to therapy. Cause I’m just like, “Listen, things are just not adding up. So I really need to talk to somebody.” I put that off for years and years and years and years.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Hmm. I want to talk about overwork. So one of the things that I think is very interesting about anxiety and depression is that, um, anxious achievers tend to put a lot of those feelings into overwork. And I’m curious, like, I, I get the sense that you probably were a really hard worker, really motivated, but like, as you’ve sort of become healthier and gotten to know yourself better, do you put limits on maybe how much you train or, you know, like when I’ve had a good enough day, I’m going to call it quits now. And has that behavior changed for you or like what’s your relationship to overwork and perfection?
KEVIN LOVE: No, for sure. I think that’s a, that’s a great question. And it doesn’t, it’s not asked enough because as an athlete, but this is any, this could be in corporate finance or corporate, you know, whatever the industry may be. It’s, it’s, it really transcends. And um, that idea of, you know, achieving yourself out of it can be, it can really drain you and make exhaustion, you know, go even further. It’s a constant, you know, running on empty and that IV bag is over and you’re not feeling any better, but it’s, it’s always “What’s next? Would this allow for the depression to feel more mute? Would this solve it?” It is a true gift and a curse, but like that fame, that achievement, that, that idea of money, it just never, never filled the void. So now what I do is attack what you love, like do what you love and, you know, chase, I would say, chase the game and everything you, you love will chase, chase you right back.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: I want to ask you real quick about social anxiety. Cause you mentioned it before, what’s it like to be famous and have social anxiety?
KEVIN LOVE: I just, I was just asked this question the other day. I did a really cool Zoom with a number of athletes from UCLA. So I got to speak to people from my Alma Mater and they asked, they asked a similar question and I told them, I was like, listen, I was in Minnesota for six seasons and I’ve, I’ve also played in Cleveland for six seasons. And both places live vicariously through their sports. They love their sports. They love their sports stars. So I was the star of the Timberwolves and Minnesota for a long time. But my social anxiety was so bad that I never really was able to enjoy the city and what it had to offer and even go outside. I had my little pockets where I would go, I had a couple of restaurants and then I would just be basically shutting in my apartment or in my room by myself.
And that’s very unhealthy. It’s so sad. I know. That’s what I talk about. That idea of regret. It was, it’s, it’s so sad. And it’s, you know, I remember, you know, my, my friends that were there, it was like, come on, let’s just go. And I’m just like, ah, you know, I just, I couldn’t get myself to do it. And it’s that, uh, you know, what I felt was I know people can relate to this as like, sit, you’re sitting at a meal, you know, you’re in a booth and you know, there’s people around you and you always feel like eyes are on you. And to me having that social anxiety, I felt like I always just needed to look down and look at my food, no eye contact, I’m doing something wrong. Even though I wasn’t, I’m doing something wrong, somebody’s going to catch me doing something. I have shame. Let’s get out of here. Where’s the nearest exit. And let’s go.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: That is a terrible way to live.
KEVIN LOVE: There’s a terrible existence. And it’s funny. Cause it at UCLA was like this, uh, you know, I did really enjoy my time there. And I was around people that I really enjoyed and still have relationships to this day. But sometimes you have this facade that you try to keep up and that’s really, really hard to do.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: So tall. Right? Like, you stick out.
KEVIN LOVE: Yeah, no, for sure. And that’s why everybody goes, “Where’s the, where’s the worst place for you to possibly go?” I said, without a doubt, airports, once you get like the security line and an airport, listen, that gives everybody anxiety and everybody like, “All right, when are we going to get through this? Am I going to make my flight? What’s going to happen? Is it going to get pushed back? Am I going to have a good seat? Who am I sitting next to?” Like that whole thought process and idea process creeps in. And I think it puts everybody on high alert, but for me it’s like massive, massive high alert, like in the worst thing that happens. And I know this is the worst thing that happens. It’s not bad at all. You get stopped and somebody is nice and says, “Hello,” but I’m like, “God don’t bring any attention to me. I just want to get to my place. I want to sit down with my headphones. I want to put my hat real low.” And of course they’re like, “Oh, who’s the huge guy in the hoodie?” You know? So yeah, it was just, that’s why I look back and say, I wish I just would have enjoyed these moments and just enjoy the thrill of being young and this sport that I love. And, you know, having people admire you.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Are you able to savor joy?
KEVIN LOVE: I am now.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Wow. I mean masel tov though. Like, let’s just take a moment.
KEVIN LOVE: Right? I think, yeah, just honestly it took me so long to really say, “Okay, I’m allowed to, I’m allowed to,” it’s an imposter theory. Again, I’m allowed to have joy. I’m allowed to get myself a little bit of credit while I’ll never truly feel like I’ve done enough. Especially in basketball. I have allowed myself to say, “Okay, I have achieved quite a bit in my career and I will continue to ‘cause I feel really good in my body.” But like, it’s like when you’re young, I remember I knew something was wrong, but not to the obvious extent I do now, but I’d look up and it was almost like the clouds would part and then it’s like the sun hit my face and I would feel this immense joy. And then it would just close up on me. It’s like, “Okay, why can’t I have that? Like, can I always have that?” Yeah. And so that was one of the first things I ever talked about with my therapist was I used to have these moments when I was young and you know, I want that. I was… where did these, where did they go? Like, I haven’t had those in so long. Where did, where did these moments go? I want to have that feeling back. I want to know what that’s like. Again, I should have, I should have known that something was up when you know, those really started to stop.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Mmm. And you can’t achieve it away. My last question for you is, um, one day your career will end in the NBA. How are you going to plan? Right? Because then you’re going to think, “Oh God, okay. Well, how am I going to, what’s my next mountain to climb?” Right? Right? Are you going to let yourself feel that way and put a new mountain in front of yourself? Are you going to try to practice? Like, not okay.
KEVIN LOVE: I mean, I mean, just being, that’s one thing you have to be is honest with yourself, right? Like, and sometimes it’s, it’s, it’s not the easiest thing to do or to, you know, it’s like admitting when you’re wrong too. Like that can be a tough hurdle. You don’t always go all the way. You go one foot in one for that. But yeah, I imagine that I’ll put some sort of mountain in front of me and carry the pebbles and just keep trying to summit this never-ending mountain that keeps getting higher, higher in elevation. But I think achievement, my relationship with it has changed to where, you know, I’m still in that pursuit of great things and greatness and excellence, but also allowing for there to be a little bit of wiggle room, knowing that, and it’s taken the pressure off of me and probably allowed me to perform better, but it’s definitely something that I’ve thought about.
And thankfully, as I mentioned earlier, with these hobbies and things that I truly love, you know, books and arts and wine and photography and my dog there, you know, just all these… travel, like all these great things that have, you know, opened up the world for me and cracked it open. Like people have these self-limiting beliefs that the world is too scary or too, you know, everything’s too far away to travel or it’s too expensive. And I think, you know, when, when you have that limiting, self-limiting belief that you just have to, you know, play your cards and, you know, allow yourself to be this vulnerable evolved person. If you can, if you can take yourself there.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: Well, Kevin Love, I wish you many moments of joy and thank you so much.
KEVIN LOVE: Of course. Thanks for having me. Thank you.
MORRA AARONS-MELE: That’s it for today’s show. Thanks to my producer, Mary Dooe, and thanks to Liz Sanchez for her help producing. Thanks to the team at HBR and the studio team who make the audio happen. I’m grateful to our guests for sharing their experiences and their truths for you, our listeners, and for our advertisers. Please send me feedback. You can email [email protected] or tweet me @morraam. And if you love the show, tell your friends or subscribe and leave a review.
From HBR presents, this is Morra Aarons-Mele.